Thursday, October 19, 2006

ترا صدك اكو عالم فطر

Title quoted from Chikita...

Getting home earlier than usual today, I was checking my mailbox and having a little chitchat with Chikita about everything and nothing, when I found this funny email in my inbox. The email is by Paul Edwards, an Australian blogger who both strongly dislikes me and strongly likes the war, and who thinks he knows the simplest thing about being Iraqi.

Having read the email, my reaction was very much similar to that of an elementary-school teacher who is just about to try to explain the concept of multiplication to a group of 7-year-olds. In other words, understanding anything is not an option for an outcome of trials. So I thought "I'm not replying to this". However, I thought I'd forward the email to Chikita, and perhaps spend a little while reflecting upon it afterwards. Eventually and after some discussion with Chikita, I thought I should write a post about it!



Paul Edwards:

"Greetings from Australia. I am one of the Australians who STRONGLY supported the Iraq war."

Me:

Good for you...



Paul Edwards quoting me:

"And it takes either a naive kind of a person or a real idiot to actually believe that Americans/Coalition Forces came to Iraq only to "free us" and "look after" "

Paul Edwards' comment:

"That's exactly what it was for. There were other reasonstoo, e.g. security of the free world, but I was so happy tobe able to finally get rid of a terrible dictator who used torape Iraqi women."

My comment:

And you would know because...you've been surfing the web, watching TV or reading your local news paper? What do you think is going on in Iraq now? Too much freedom and happiness, thanks to you?

Chikita's comment:

" هممممممممممم… وهسه شديصير يمه"



Paul Edwards quoting me:

"our interests". Nobody would really believe that the United States would spend billions of dollars to free Iraqis for just nothing in return"

Paul Edwards comment:

"What exactly do you imagine that the US is getting in return?What do you think the other members of the coalition aregetting in return? We are doing you a great favour, and youare so ungrateful. Well, we're not doing it for you personally,we're doing it for people like the ITM brothers - people whoactually appreciate freedom."

My comment:

First, no I'm not grateful and nor the majority of my people are. And if you think you know better, then good for you. What they're getting out of this? Well, let's see…
Oil, reconstruction contracts (Specially since the job is more like bringing the country back to the 21st century, from the 5th century!). I don't know, do names like Pectel and Halliburton ring a bell?
By the way, I wouldn't like to owe people like you a dime, let alone a home. I owe you nothing. The most you've moved was your mouth in support for our case (And when it does, I bet everybody thinks it shouldn't!) , but I'm the one who had to move out of the country and leave my life as I'd known it because of "your" mistakes and your supreme intelligence that turned my used-to-be-a-wreck home into nothing less than a swamp. Now, if you're not a government official or at least a soldier, stop saying "we", because you don't fit in the picture.

Chikita's comment:

".شهالخريط…همه بس جانوا يريدون اجر وثواب لأبا عبد الله يمكن"

Paul Edwards quoting me:

Nobody buys the "White Man's Burden"

Paul Edwards' comment:

That is a misnomer. It's actually "free people's burden". In my opinion, free people have an obligation to help liberatethe rest of the world.

My comment:

Being enlightened as you are, and obviously spending massive amounts of time in front of your screen in support for your case and not doing anything else, I would suggest you google "Rudeyard Kipling".


And he's still quoting me:

" or the "Democracy Protectors" cliches anymore."

His comment:

"At the moment, Bush is exactly doing that - trying to spreaddemocracy. But in my opinion he is wrong to do that. Heinstead needs to spread RATIONAL, HUMANIST,NON-SUBJUGATING government. I have spent a LOTof effort trying to figure this out. Please read the followingfor what I believe is the solution to Iraq's problems:
http://antisubjugator.blogspot.com/2005/06/tribal-mentality.html
Also, see rule 2 here:http://www.mutazilah.org/pillars/arabic.txt
Also read www.mutazilah.org"

My comment:

LOL. New Messiah...!

Chikita's comment:

يمكن يشوف هواية تلفزيون بس ما تعرفين اعلامهم شيعكس … يعني هم خطية ترا صدك اكو عالم فطر


Last words…

Dear Paul Edwards; please try contacting our favorite "mother-duck" of the Olivebranch Network, Luke. He's Australian and I believe he would be delighted to talk you back to your mind. He really knows far better than you would expect anybody who's never been anywhere around the Middle East to know, because people usually know as much as you do.

By the way, please do not try to learn Arabic. It might be too complicated for you while you're trying to sort why "the Australian government, the US government, Al Hurra, Al Jazeera and various other places" don't quite care and while you "spend countless hours thinking and thinking, trying to crack Iraqi and anti-war mentality".


UPDATE: Some 8 hours after posting the original post. 3 Paul-Edwards-Comments later...


Dear Paul Edwards,


Please get a life, and get off my blog. I've come to think that showing any response to you was just as idiotic of a reaction as your thinking happened to be. Please allow me to clarify the fact that you're just another ignorant, stubborn blogger whose ignorance, stubbornness and absurdity make no difference whatsoever in the world out there. I hope you know now why ""the Australian government, the US government, Al Hurra, Al Jazeera and various other places" don't really care what you think.

If you want facts, check blogs like Chikita's that I've mentioned up there. Her post "Free in Baghdad" might enlighten you about the current face that life has in Iraq.

Finally, whether you do that or whether you keep your unnoted absurd little opinion, please make sure not to flood my blog with nonsense. After all, if anybody can feel free to post nonsense here that would be myself. I have no intention to put up with nutcases who think that God talks to them and that they experience Divine Revelations. Whether you understand what I have just said or not, allow me to put you in the picture about this; if I ever happen to read another word in either my mailbox or my blog that has your signature, trust the fact that it will be swept off out of my sight even without trying to decipher the mumble that your brilliant mind has come up with. So thank you forehand for not wasting my time or yours (Though I'm sure you're life is a waste, but anyway!) and not writing a word here anymore.



P.S. Are you sure your next post on your blog isn't about the plan plotted by Martians to enslave human beings and take over Planet Earth?



ĒL DELILÂH

26 comments:

Sam from OZ said...

"The most you've moved was your mouth in support for our case (And when it does, I bet everybody thinks it shouldn't!)"

I completely agree, being Australian I can say that people this opinionated are usually really stupid. Mr Paul Edwards you are completely retarded, sitting in the comfort of your own home....not in the middle of a warzone. I really wish that instead of bringing guns to iraq the army would send them to people like you with one bullet so you could shoot yourself....

Konfused Kid said...

meh heh heh.

"By that time, I started experiencing revelations from God, telling me to write a new bible, I have done so."

(sigh)

Paul Edwards said...

PE:"I was so happy tobe able to finally get rid of a terrible dictator who used to rape Iraqi women."

"And you would know because...you've been surfing the web, watching TV or reading your local news paper?"

Are you trying to deny that Saddam used to rape Iraqi women? INSTITUTIONALIZED RAPE. As well as institutionalized torture, mutilation and murder. Just because it wasn't happening to you, you don't care about it? Well I do.

"What do you think is going on in Iraq now?"

What's going on now is a transitional phase. The religiously-bigotted Sunnis are objecting to being out of power.

"Too much freedom and happiness, thanks to you?"

Most of the country is quiet. It's just the Sunni areas where there's an ongoing war to make sure that they don't seize power.

PE:"What exactly do you imagine that the US is getting in return? What do you think the other members of the coalition are getting in return?"

"First, no I'm not grateful and nor the majority of my people are."

Not true. Polls show that most Iraqis think the war was worth it. In addition, there was a 70% turnout at the elections, despite threats from terrorists. Iraqis have taken to democracy like a duck to water.

"What they're getting out of this? Well, let's see…
Oil"

No, the US is PAYING for oil, the same as it used to do when Iraq was a dictatorship. The US isn't getting a red cent from Iraq.

"reconstruction contracts"

Reconstruction contracts are being paid for with US taxpayer's money, yet another free gift from America to Iraq.

"I owe you nothing."

True, ungrateful racists don't owe me anything.

"The most you've moved was your mouth in support for our case"

I am a taxpayer - I paid for the military that liberated you, and I voted for the pro-war party to keep you liberated. You don't recognize that you were liberated because you were one of the Sunni in power and didn't think there was anything wrong with Saddam, since he was a fellow-Sunni.

"I'm the one who had to move out of the country and leave my life"

This is because of an ongoing Sunni insurgency. You should blame the sick mentality of the terrorists for this.

"Now, if you're not a government official or at least a soldier, stop saying "we", because you don't fit in the picture."

I am an Australian citizen living in a democracy. I AM the government!

PE:"That is a misnomer. It's actually "free people's burden". In my opinion, free people have an obligation to help liberate the rest of the world."

"I would suggest you google "Rudeyard Kipling"."

Yes, that's what he said, but like I said, it's a misnomer. In my opinion free non-whites (e.g. South Koreans), should be attempting to free the rest of the world too. It shouldn't only be white people.

Paul Edwards said...

sam from oz, "you are completely retarded, sitting in the comfort of your own home....not in the middle of a warzone."

And you weren't the one whose daughter was being raped by your own government. So?

"I really wish that instead of bringing guns to iraq the army would send them to people like you with one bullet so you could shoot yourself"

That will not stop Saddam from raping Iraqi women. Nor would it free 27 million Iraqis from state-slavery. Not that you ever gave a damn about the Iraqi women who were screaming as they were being raped on Saddam's orders.

This war will be won or lost by the civilians in our democracies. The soldiers are easily able to obtain victory. I am putting my effort into the civilian campaign, where it is most needed, to get the pro-war governments reelected.

Paul Edwards said...

BTW, although I don't have video of the institutionalized rape, I do have video of the institutionalized torture, mutilation and murder. You can see that here:

http://www.benadorassociates.com/media/r9der1.ram
http://www.benadorassociates.com/media/p5osax8.ram

How can you watch these videos and not want to protect these poor people? Have you no soul?

Konfused Kid said...

Paul The Last Prophet....I do not know what has happened to me when I read these comments, but everything you seem to say or link to felt like it was not something trivial of another human being who pretends to 'care', you seem to be something else. I humble at my previous mockery of you, and I ask you to forgive me in your wisdom and newfound knowledge so that we may work again that no evil dictator will rape innocent girls ever again. Being a Sunni myself, I realized my horrible ways and decided to puruse the path of truth and wisdom, that of the blessed Mutazilla, I have heard of the news items about rape of Iraqi teenagers by American soldiers, but I know now that they should not be questioned, as they carry on a bigger mission and their sins will be washed in the wine-river of al-Kawthar. Surely it is much better to be raped by such a divine person than it is to be raped by an ugly, filthy, SUNNI dictator? I wish to present you with a token of Iraqi goodwill as a gift in the sincere wish that you could forgive me, I really cannot find any other way to say it except in Iraqi, it's very very very important, I suggest you put it on your website, if you can find someone to translate it to you it would be much less the better, here it is:

Balla Ma Tinchab L Khatir al-Ka'aba.

Paul Edwards said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Ēl Delilâh said...

What did I just say?! I said I will remove anything you say without bothering deciphering it. And my promise stands :)

miraj said...

Walla this figure miyastahil ta3bach Delilah. Bes he cracked me up. Why do people try to waste their times and others' in this pathetic way anyway!!!!

Anonymous said...

Hey we're talking to Providence' gift to planet E so mind your Ps and Qs you'll never know what could befall this nation

Bruno said...

People, I've spent ages - repeat, AGES, trying to talk some sense into this Paul Edwards. If you look back through his archived comments you will see me laboriously pointing out fallacy after fallacy after contradiction after lie in his thinking. It does no good whatsoever, because he is literally mentally ill.

I'm serious.

He thinks the universe is a computer simulation he set up for himself except for he didn't know it, and that he is actually Jesus Christ reborn, as indicated to himself via the Number of the Beast, 666, in his comments section. He actually escaped from a nuthouse on one occasion, and that post should be in his archives as well.

I would pity him if his rhetoric were not so dangerous. He genuinely believes that genocide – read killing 90% of a given population – is a viable conflict resolution method, and in his latest comments on his blog he is busy advocating slavery as a good way to control a populace. Even the Kurds, whom one might believe would be more inclined to listen to him due to their unfortunate past, despise him.

Currently some poor Afghan is skinning him for whatever dollars he is worth, so he is not completely useless. You might want to go to his blog for a good laugh but bear in mind just where his crude reason comes from: dementia.

white rose said...

is this guy for real ????

I got an email from him too and thought it was, well, as my english teacher used to call it "verbal diarrhea" :P

paul plz get a life the world has its fair share of psychos...

markk said...

An Australian living in Australia arguing with an Iraqi living in Iraq about conditions in Iraq? How bizarre.

As an Australian myself, let me just say that there are too many people like that, on both sides of the political fence.

olivebranch said...

Hey! I am an Australian who debates with Iraqi's about the situation on the ground in Iraq! But I guess I do have an intelligent, moderate view point created by an understanding learnt through reading the thoughts and listening to the emotions of many many many Iraqis...

Here is the e-mail response I gave to Paul.. It was probably a little more than he deserved but I did it anyway.

Greetings Mr Paul Edwards,

I am Luke(y) Skinner, editor//admin and founder of the Olivebranch Network. I am also an Australian and have dedicated the last few years of my life to researching what is actually occuring in Iraq, how ACTUAL iraqi's view the situation and how this differs from the media representations we see here in Australia.

I would like to comment and ask a few questions in regard to your ridiculous attack on El Delilah; whose past you know nothing of, but I know much of.

When you say this:

What's going on now is a transitional phase. The religiously-bigotted Sunnis are objecting to being out of power.

"Too much freedom and happiness, thanks to you?"

Most of the country is quiet. It's just the Sunni areas where there's an ongoing war to make sure that they don't seize power.

:::::::::::::::::::

Where is your justification? How could you possibly say that most of the country is quiet and restive? Over the last 2 years there has been continous infighting between the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and al-Sadr's forces. (the two dominant Shiite forces).

How can you say the Sunni are "religiously biggoted", unless you are just repeating something you have read prior to the invasion or in the immediate months following ? Did you know that the Iraq The Model brothers are both Sunni?

Did you also know that the Iraq The Model boys blame Jeish al-Mehdi and the Badr Forces for much of the ethnic cleansing; pure and utter genocide; that is going on in Baghdad?

And when you say Saddam raped women INSTITUTIONALLY, where is your justification for this quote; what are you talking about? Do you think women in Iraq were forced to walk around the streets covered head-to-toe in black? Do you think that women were not allowed prominant positions in government or private sector jobs? Do you think the education given to women was below the standard of that given to men? What is this term "RAPE" that you use in reference to if not in direct reference to actually sexually abusing women; which most definately was not an "institutional norm" in Saddams Iraq.

Did you know that the Shia in Najaf; the southern holy town force their women to dress like this and obtain most of their support directly from Iran?

Please when you respond do not accuse me of being a nutcase talking head who doesnt understand what he is saying, for anything you decide to question that is written in this email can and will be justified using authoritive sources if you so require it to be.

I would also like to know on what basis you are saying that the majority of Iraqi's are greatfull for the invasion still, to this very day. Please do not use the January elections as justification for the invasion; while nearly everyone Iraqi supports the move towards democracy and wishes for a fair and equal share of the representation, participating in said democracy does not necessarily mean they are greatfull for being illegally occupied by a foreign force and having Hundreds of Thousands of their countrymen, women and children killed.

Many of those Iraqis with whome I speak once supported the invasion; many did not. They all supported Saddam's fall but they were correct to question the motives of the US-lead invasion.

You are right in saying it is the responsibility of us advanced, priveleged nations to lead those nations left at a disadvantage towards a better future. You are right to say it is up to us to help them become "free". The best way we can achieve this is through discourse and understanding, by accepting that what you see written by actual Iraqi's represents the viewpoints of actual Iraqis. If you can find 100 Iraqi writers and read their blogs the whole way through and still be able to tell me that you believe they are greatfull for the invasion I would be extremely suprised.

I have done this. I have read nearly every iraqi blog in existance from beggining to end.

If your interested in continuing this debate with me I would love to hear a reply, so long as it is grounded in fact; correctly sourced and up to date. Please do not respond if all your going to do is accuse me of being a tree-hugging hippy whose never had a job, thats what I tend to be told I am by those who have strongly opposing opinions to mine; even though I've been working since the age of 12, have two jobs now and also study Journalism at university. My views are moderate and balanced upon the facts I can certify for myself. So please, lets debate!

Luke(y) Skinner
aka [olivebranch]
founder//editor
"The Olivebranch Network"
http://olivebranchoptimism.net

AngloGermanicAmerican said...

Delilah:

I hope that you don't take offense to these questions, but given your intimate knowlege of Iraqis in particular and the middle east in general, your understanding of the "West", and your God given intelligence, I would be a fool not to at least ask these questions.

What is your hope for Iraq; in other words, what would you like to see in terms of government, in terms of economic system, and in terms of the role of religion in the affairs of state?

Second question. What is your realistic hope; in other words, what do you believe is realistically achievable in the short term for each of the previous questions?

Third question. How? What in your view needs to transpire, and in what order, for Iraq to become what you hope and desire it to become?

Konfused Kid said...

Nobody talk about Paul, he made me Caliph of the Middle East, please, I must consult him immediately!

He says he has 35 converts.

olivebranch said...

another response to the dickhead:

It's not ridiculous to attack the enemies of freedom.


-- how can an extremely educated, secular muslim woman be an enemy of freedom ? Particularly if you don't consider the current Shia leaders of Iraq to be enemies of freedom?

You can see this in the letter that Zarqawi wrote to
Osama, calling the Shiite "dogs".

---- Zarqawi is a foreign terrorist imported to Iraq whose support from the Iraqi Sunni was extremely limited at its peak; and who quickly became their number 1 enemy since he was promoting sectarian warfare. The Sunni and Shia in Iraq lived intertwined lives for centuries; intermarriage, brothers, sisters of differing ways of following Islam. I could find an equivalent comment frmo al-Hakim the leader of SCIRI, or from many many al-Mehdi army supporters. Besides which Zarqawi and Osama BOTH follow the SALAFI or Wahhabi muslim doctrine; which has its origins in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan; NOT IRAQ. I have written an essay on the subject, if you would like to see it I will send you it.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm050704/text/50704w11.htm
Attacks are mainly confined to four out of 18 provinces in Iraq.

---- So is the population. Ninevah, Basrah, Baghdad and al-Anbar are the four of which you speak; however it's not true to say that attacks are confined to these areas; for a start it was in Diyala province where Zarqawi was killed, oh and in April + November 2004 then again in 2005 there was huuuuuuuuuuge fighting between the Mehdi army and the US military in An Najaf. So theres 6 provinces; not to mention that Maysan & Wasit provinces are known to be used as transfer grounds for Irani military equiptment used to arm the Shia militia's (Mehdi army & Badr Corps).

Recently there has also been a lot of trouble in Al Muthanna. So thats atleast 7 out of 18; except that 4 of those 18 are parts of Kurdistan; and as such are exempt from inclusion. So, out of the 14 provinces wich are dominated by either Shia or Sunni we have 7 with a large amount of conflict. (Babil province is also home to a lot of sectarian murder, but not so much to open fighting). So really theres probably 8.

Babil, Diyala, Najaf and Basrah have witnessed some of the worst atrocities of this whole war. They are dominant Shia zones. Al Anbar, Saleh ah Din & Karbala were initially targetted because of Saddam supposed support for "Sunni extremism" (despite his oppression of all religion, Sunni or Shia, since he was both socialist and secular even though he was a dictator). Thats the reason for their volatility, even though only Anbar would be included in the top 4.

Baghdad has the problems it has not due to Sunni extremism or Shia extremism alone but due to a few reasons:

A) security was never ever restored after the US disbanded the Iraqi army when really all they needed to do was demote its leaders.
B) unemployment means that even those who dont support extremism get jobs working for extremists commiting atrocious crimes, on both the Sunni & Shia side of things.
C) Huge influx of Irani-trained Shia militia's into baghdad as Tehran's counter-action to US influence in the region.
D) everytime someone has a father, mother brother or sister killed they become more likely to kill someone.

--------------
I don't know how much "infighting" there has been between
those two groups, but what matters is whether they are
attacking the government or civilians
--------------

There has been shitloads. And all these kidnappings, abductions and executions and "Death Squads" which are dominating the media and the lives of the Iraqi's I speak to personally; Is the work of these two groups. They ARE TARGETTING CIVILIANS. THEY EVEN TARGET SHIA. THEY EVEN KILL SHIA. Why? because maybe these shia have a name which sounds Sunni. Maybe they come from Ahdamiya instead of Kahdamiya even though both regions are within a kilometre of one another and had not been at conflict in 2003 or for over a century preceding. (Both are areas of baghdad)


Yes, I didn't mean to imply that ALL Sunni are religious bigots.
Just that the reason for the Sunni to not appreciate being liberated
in the same way that the Shiites do is because of religious bigotry

------------
Well that is what you DID imply. Be more carefull with your words. Oh and I very much doubt that all the shia appreciate the liberation. Yes, in a true democracy one sect is not supposed to rule over another; but when you are in Iraq and you have Shia who want to inforce Sharia (ISLAMIC LAW) over the whole country just like in Iran, the idea of equality regardless of religion is a fantasy.

The Shia DO NOT WANT to offer the Sunni equality. They do not want a democratic Republic. They want a Federal system of governance as anyone who has followed the elections and have read the new constitution will know. Why? Because then they can obtain Basrah, Najaf, Karbala, Maysan, Dhi Qar, Al Muthanna, Babil and al Qadisiyah; then Seceed from Iraq and have their own little Shiite state or "Shiastan" if you will.

What does this leave the Sunni with? Salah Ah Din, Al Anbar, Baghdad and Diyala. No oil, No wealth, No income; certainly not equality. Oh and those Sunni who live in the south will be forced to live by Shia Islamic Law much like can be found in Iran.

------------ RAPE ROOMS -------------

The fact that the only source of confirmation you can get from this comes from the US government just proves my point in itself. Oh and how dare you accuse ME, a VERY LIBERAL secular person who spends ALL OF HIS SPARE TIME trying to promote secularism rights for Iraqi's, in particular their women and children; of not caring. I told you to keep the argument factual and not start the personal slander campaign; it wont get you any further in the debate.

-------------- UDAY-----------------

Ok so now Uday can't do it; but any man dressed in a police uniform carrying an Ak47 who belongs to a shia militia can. Now there are thousands of Udays' running around thinking they own the country. By the way, being against the current situation certainly doesnt mean they support the old one. When the Police are controlled by a sectarian militia which provide safe houses and harbour those who commit abductions and torture; at the same time as there being no security; how could it be worse?

----------------------

No, but the new Iraqi government doesn't discriminate against
women either. They have equal rights under the law.
---------------------

You have not read the new constitution..............
Do so before I even bother to respond. You dont know Iraqi law so dont pretend you do. Oh and even if the peice of paper said they are protected, do you think that will stop these Shia militia killing women for not wearing the Hijab?
--------------------
--------EDUCATION----------
The education in Iraq was not substandard. Dentistry does not teach love for Saddam. Nor does Civil Engineering. Nor does IT study. Maybe the high-school did, but then don't American highschools still ban the teaching of principles of Evolution? Don't Australian schools teach the invasion of Australia and the genocide of 90% of the Aboriginie race as necessary and correct? Ideology is going to exist no matter what you do. OH, and their schools were still considered the best in the ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST.

------------------

Protected by "law" again when the only people around to police the law are infiltrated by the very same militia which force these women to cover up, to go into arranged marriages and to abstain from driving cars, getting jobs or doing virtually anything alone.


---------- THE WAR IS ILLEGAL ----------

The united nations declared the invasion illegal. International Law makes offensive action towards another nation without UN approval illegal.

Geezus; the 1991 war ended in 1991 upon the removal of Iraqi troops from Kuwait. OH and even that war was built on false pretexts. The US werent interested until some girl who turned out to be the daughter of an influential Kuwaiti in America; made up a lie about being in a Kuwaiti hospital and seein Iraqi soldiers steal incubators leaving hundreds of Kuwaiti infants to die. That was a real good stunt that one.

---------------------

DELILAH IS SECULAR YOU IDIOT. SHE IS BARELY RELIGIOUS AT ALL. Oh and some of the others you refer to as "religious bigots", they have family working in the very Iraqi government of which you speak.

Moreover. The Lancet Study which says 650,000 more civilians have died since 2003 than what would have if Saddam Hussein stays in power is still the most accurate figure to date. Iraqi Body Count even says in its own disclaimer "we rely upon confirmable deaths reported in the Media".

Since most deaths don't make it into the media its easy to confirm that these statistics are wrong. Even the Morgue's confirm more deaths than the media do. Those deaths are accountable to the fact there is a civil-war and an OCCUPATION. Not the fact that there are people with dissenting views. I have a dissenting view from you. Saudi Arabia is full of religious biggots; do HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS die as a result of occupation or war there???

-----------

Geeze. I have been listening to arguments of why people support the war for about 4 years since before the invasion. Most of the responses I heard were "bomb the cunts" "there just dune coons anyway" "fucking arabs" "why dont we just nuke em?" "they are all freedom haters anyway, they just want to kill us". Do these sound like "PURE" motives to you?

---------------

Toppling a dictator and installing an anti-secular, pro-theocratic Shia Militia to control the country aint going to help anyone. I prefer the idea of discourse and conversation. That maybe through understanding and knowledge people can grow instead of just giving more guns to more people to oppose each other and end up eradicating all the educated persons in the country.

And your damn right,

Iraq WAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSS a wonderfull opportunity. It's a shame we went and FUCKED IT RIGHT UP and turned it into the one thing stopping us from being able to deal with REAL ISSUES like North Korea and Iran.
---------------

Dictators have been internally disloged throughout history, in every country, every culture, under every religion for many reasons. There are millions of ways to dislodge them and Military options always prove the same thing: OCCUPATION DOES NOT LAST AND EVENTUALLY LEADS TO CIVILIAN WARFARE BETWEEN THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT AND THOSE WHO DO NOT. Otherwise it just opens up the gates of hell for those who were already at war with one another, just couldn't do it in the open under a dictator.

----------------------

P.S repeating the words "raped Iraqi Women" does not make them more valid. "Didn't your mother teach you to protect women". What the fuck do you know about me?

----------------------

The long cues to join the security forces shows a few other things aswell:

A) that who ever is doing the training isnt doing it fast enough
B) that there isnt enough jobs going around
C) that a lot of people dont think the current security forces can do the job.

The tone of your argument was not similar to my initial response; and I have decided that this debate probably won't go anywhere, but I am willing to read whatever you may send; especially if you can find sources from outside of those who knowingly lied and cheated International LAW to bring an occupation to a non-threatening country. They should have gone next-door and invaded Iran. Saddam would have fallen all by himself and more women would have been "saved". Infact you could even have called it a "liberation" and got away with it.

Invading Iran next is not a good idea. If they had done it in April 2003 straight after invading Iraq; sure. But now your going to try invade a country well prepared, well armed; whose civilian population do not support an invasion and believe they can overthrow the government themselves.

What we should be doing is opening discourse and providing food, water and electricity to Iraqi's and hoping maybe we can fix the problems we have created; then maybe civilians of the rest of the Middle East might not view the US and its allies in such a bad light and "liberation" may actually have a reasonable level of support.

Sorry but your arguments are just opinions and don't quite match up to the facts. It's easy to find someone elses opinions to equal your own. Its a whole nother thing to know the facts and represent them accurately.

Luke(y)

sam from oz said...

Yeah I kinda tried to reason on his level

Paul Edwards is retarded
Therefore Paul Edwards + gun to head equals solution.

I rest my case or I could have stated a bunch of facts like informed young man Luke(y), but you know all work and know play makes sam a dull boy....

Peacenik said...

This aggressive attitude of righteousness is exactly got us into this quagmire. I don’t understand why Paul Edwards feels so compelled to defend his views in this manner. If doesn’t have a real sense of what is going on there. There are a lot of people in the United States who feel the same as he, but they don’t understand that more often than not a foreign force can’t waltz it and reshape and ancient civilization in a couple of years.

Bruno said...

[peacenik] "I don’t understand why Paul Edwards feels so compelled to defend his views in this manner."

Ummm ... because he's a nut, perhaps?

I really wasn't joking.

aNarki-13 said...

:))
"أجر وثواب لأبي عبدالله"
هذي بمكانهه!
i did tell u earlier that i like your style, right?

i'll now go tell chikitita the same!
(i know.. i know.. you both don't NEED me saying such words, but, a little praise won't hurt you, right? :D)

Abdurahman Warsame said...

ĒL DELILÂH,

I encountered this nutcase in another Iraqi bloggers comments section and decided not to respond to him, because it was weird to argue with someone about "freedom" and "killing the enemies". But thanks for taking the time to post and respond to him and for giving everyone a chance to see what you had to put up with.

I'm an Australia working in the MidEast, though not a stranger to the region (and working in a country called Aljazeera) and I've yet to meet an Australian who doesn't think Iraq was a disaster (apart from this this wierdo).

Majed Jarrar said...

Chikita rocks!

do you imagine sometime in the future having a strange baathist-Islamic-sect forming and putting water coolers in streets of baghdad (if there will be any streets left) and writing
إشرب واذكر عطش أبو عدّاي

that Paul dude is just... wow.

Sometimes I really think that such people are actors, people who smoke-up, get high, and surf the net trying to write the most ridiculous comments on blogs.

If Paul ever lived in Iraq, then I would've said that he used to appear on TV among those jumping high while holding their flipflops in the air and shouting allah y5alli irrayyees.

Majed Jarrar said...

oh,
check this out, another one of the Paul-race
http://donsingleton.blogspot.com/

He doesn't even have any blog readers! except this Muslim guy...

but this doesn't stop him from writing long blogs very frequently.

don't forget to read his post "Why President Bush is a Hero."

I really can't imagine that there are real people who think like that.

i'm serious! they must be employees at some State Department thing.

Jessica said...

i just want to clarify that majority of australians are not like this guy!

دردشة ومنتديات عراقنا said...


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